Time Again Time Again as I Talk About Myself and All Teh Shit That You Buy

> When a friend of mine started his kickoff business concern a couple of years or so ago, and he asked me for advice regarding the choice of operating system for the visitor service and product, I recommended a specific Linux distribution with a very high level of command, i.eastward. you need to prepare everything up yourself (no gui click-click solution) This is terrible advice. Niggling with system files in an OS is not their core business organization, so why would you e'er recommend they waste precious business time & effort doing then? The most important questions to consider when installing an operating system for a concern are: Does it run the software I demand stably, how much work is information technology to set & maintain, and what kind of back up can I get/buy? As for the rest of the article, distro hopping is a great manner to "shake out" various operating systems to discover what you like and what you lot don't like about each. Reading the brochure is non plenty; you desire to go opinions and advice from various sources (even Reddit) to build a narrowed down list of promising avenues, so test drive a few until you find i that yous tin be overall comfortable with. It's a lot like buying a auto. Maybe a distro won't work with the hardware you demand to use. Maybe a feature you need is broken or unavailable with no estimated fix date. Maybe it's besides bleeding border and suffers more breakage than you're comfortable with. Possibly the distributed software is too old and updates also slow. Peradventure it's too much work to maintain. Maybe it won't let you customize the things you intendance about.

Choose a job. Choose life. I chose Debian. At present, what I mean is; I made a delivery. As Linux strains under complexity I am wondering whether to make a total-commitment life switch to BSD. But information technology's been xx years with Debian and it'southward like a relationship I almost feel afraid to go out. Operating systems are something I know a niggling bit about. Later going through the whole build Minix for 68000 from AT'due south book, and then Linux From Scratch and compiling kernels thing, and building Slackware over a whole weekend, once I matured into needing a practical operating organisation in my 30s I was attracted to Debian by its social contract and "wholesome family temper of Debbie and Ian." I ended up edifice distros myself, learning the ropes of Debian development (though I never really joined the DD community). It's been a rodeo ride. I loathe systemd and the whole "mother knows best" Poettering schism. The CoC dramas and virtue parades in front of the neighbours are just embarrasing. And then there'due south Uncle Ubuntu who sometimes touches united states of america inappropriately. But in the end I continue coming dorsum "to the family", because in the cease all families are dysfunctional and weird, so may besides pick i and try to work with it. Then I hold with the OP'south admonition of distro hopping. It feels like restless promiscuity. Whenever I need to install a new Bone I selection the latest minimal Debian and get from there.

> Merely it's been 20 years with Debian and it'southward like a relationship I most feel afraid to go out. I was shipping Debian 1.two CDs by the hundreds in the nineties! I'm using Debian or derivaties/forks everywhere (desktop / laptop / server / Raspberry Pi (raspbian). > It'southward been a rodeo ride. I loathe systemd and the whole "mother knows all-time" Poettering schism. A few months ago I switched my main desktop to "Devuan" (a Debian fork without systemd) and I do really dig information technology. I'k however running Debian on servers, on the laptop, on the other desktop, etc. But honestly: Devuan, for my use case on my dev machine, is actually but Debian without the Poettering stuff and it works fine. YMMV.

I was actually debating Devuan, just I am kinda agape of jumping ( perchance I will put it in VM commencement ). How difficult(long it took to) was information technology to create a practiced working environs for you?

I tried. Maybe likewise close to the debacle when Devuan was newborn. Ran just like a regular Debian, without init-hijack as advertised. Only I soon ran into maintenance problems. The box I put it on soon couldn't be upgraded and (through my ain mistake of pulling in dubious backports and fsking my apt-sources file) I concluded upwards back in the ninth circle of systemd. Probably due for a fresh try.

I'd similar to try Devuan, but I'm assuming a lot of software these days assumes the presence of systemd?

Most software is below the level of systemd and agnostic to what you lot are running. Even services are only systemd specific insofar equally they provide a systemd unit file which amounts to calling an executable with certain arguments which is convertible to a different organization in about 10 seconds. Presumably like void Linux this has been done for you.

The systemd haters are right near their complaints, merely there's a ton that systemd does right, like making the interface expected of a daemon "Run forever and send output to stdin and stdout" rather than "Double fork and rotate your ain logfiles" while likewise having back up for the latter.

> The systemd haters are correct almost their complaints, but there's a ton that systemd does right Yes. A fair and balanced technical assay of systemd would have to concede information technology does a lot of good things, and well - if you subscribe to its paradigm [i]. My beef was with the disruption and bonfire of social capital caused by a heavy-handed, undemocratic, vocal grouping imposing upon others. It was an ugly episode and seemed to go against all the values I believed Debian stood for. And it came from all sides. The personal attacks on Poettering were inexcusable. [1] I don't. I believe it's a solution that trades abroad system security and reliability to get userspace convenience.

Isn't that the "interface" which djb'southward daemontools, runit, and later s6 as well promotes? Anyhow, that question was mostly rhetorical. You don't want to get into the midst of "nevertheless another systemd flamewar" thread (and I don't blame you, neither practice I). Only pointing out that not-systemd alternatives provided the abovementioned interface, long before systemd existed.

It commonly paints a better narrative to compare systemd vs sysvinit and ignore the fact that runit predates systemd by 6 years. It makes it substantially easier to dismiss detractors as Luddites scared of new things. Imagine if Windows viii came out and people rightly dunked on its many foibles and proponents said it was clearly superior to DOS and people actually ought to only learn to dear the charms bar and modern UI instead of sticking with their familiar control line interface.

BSDs are very interesting, I highly recommend checking some of them out. I think the most compelling case for them is the very tightly integrated kernel & Os which is largely decoupled from the user-space packages. I take completely hosed my Linux installs to the point of being unbootable a few times (to exist articulate, information technology was my fault every time!) by making mistakes with the packet director, only this isn't really possible with BSDs since the core operating system uses a completely split up method of updating and patching. The other thing to keep in heed is that the systems are brutally minimalist. Equally in, Bash is considered a "fun bonus" rather than the core part of the arrangement that is installed in /usr/local. That can be a substantial turn-off for some who see it equally archaic or quondam-fashioned, only there'south something to exist said for the "stability" not deprecating such an one-time piece of software :) Something you volition probably appreciate is the consistency and documentation, even with piffling things like manpages. Every detail is ironed-out and perfected in a mode that we're not actually used to as Linux users. At that place are some good guides out there for installing & configuring OpenBSD on an old laptop, and it's admittedly worth a try. Information technology's without a doubt simpler and lighter than any mainstream Linux distro, and frankly but really fun to play with!

Given the divide you describe under BSDs, I merely did a search for "nix on bsd". There doesn't seem to be very much of a cipher/bsd story out there, based on my search. In principle it sounds like an interesting combination.

My file server is running FreeBSD. The biggest sticking point for using it on my dev machine is lack of docker support on BSD. These days, my dev box is running Arch.

Practice you know that, on Windows and Mac, Docker runs Linux in a VM? Information technology uses Hyper-V on Windows and HyperKit on Mac. The Linux "distribution" is created with LinuxKit. It is this VM Linux kernel that gets shared across containers. I mention this as lots of devs happily use Mac and Windows equally Docker dev boxes. Running something like Alpine or RancherOS on bhyve ( FreeBSD hypervisor ) and running Docker on summit of that is pretty much the same equally using Docker on a Mac. No real reason to avert FreeBSD equally a dev platform only because you desire to run Docker.

OpenBSD makes for a fantastic desktop OS. The major event you'll run into is the availability of software (e.g. no electron apps).

>I am wondering whether to make a full-commitment life switch to BSD. I tried NetBSD for a small project a while ago and was very pleasantly surprised. The documentation was great and everything worked every bit advertised. I've spent more time trying to figure out a single package on Linux than I did getting upward and running on NetBSD for the first time.

I switched all but 2 agile machines (I have v) from Debian to OpenBSD from 2022 to 2019. If you can live with everything OpenBSD+ports can't offer in comparing, and then switch, yous won't regret information technology. If you don't accept the right hardware for OpenBSD so aspire to alter it in the future, you won't regret that either.

> It feels like restless promiscuity. It might be like rumspringa which might exist a stepping stone before y'all cull your level of commitment.

> I ask a customer why they are running the Os they take chosen, surprisingly the answer is that their choice was made based upon popularity in the industry. > Using popularity as a determining cistron is a flawed strategy Is it tho? I recollect information technology depends on what the context is. If y'all have actually specialist needs then yes, you should spend time working out the best solution. Totally agree. But if you have bog standard needs that everyone else has mayhap just employ what everyone else uses? Every fourth dimension you run into a problem you will probably find someone else has run into it and fixed it already. eg Linux desktop? Maybe merely employ Ubuntu? Every time you want to install a Linux app from someone you will probably find they provide a Ubuntu package these days. I'd recommend people check out wardley mapping for a skilful tool for thinking well-nigh this type of issues.

Use what everyone else is using protects you from all sorts of problems that y'all may not fifty-fifty realize. At the same time, if you observe yourself fighting information technology continually information technology may be worth looking once again.

I feel like there is a lot of condescending tone in the article that's really non helpful to many people who are not equally versed in the topic. Maybe like a wine connoisseur who can't give a elementary answer to what wine he might recommend for a dinner without spending an hour explaining all the things I need to consider to brand the right selection. A lot of applied science decisions are based on what can be considered 'skillful enough' option to progress to the side by side stage on time because y'all don't often have the leisure to report and consider all the options available.

Yes, the article is chastising people for research and getting opinions from others, and suggesting that the solution is to do research and to get advice from others.

Using popularity as a determining cistron is a flawed strategy, still it'south not so obvious. Making unsupported declarations is an equally flawed strategy. A large trouble for whatsoever business organization determination maker is the inability to fully define the problem. The hereafter is an unknown that tin never be fully quantified. Requirements can and do change over time --- in ways that are difficult to predict. Businesses must accommodate to such alter in order to grow and survive. What core product offers a concern the best hazard of being able to aquire the tools and talent needed to adapt to changing and unforseen requirements? I with the most marketplace presence and economic momentum --- aka the most popular. Going with the menses may well exist the option that provides the highest probability of long term success. Proving this is virtually impossible due to the unknowns involved. But so is proving otherwise. This is the proverbial "judgment call" --- and business is full of these types of decisions.

Years agone, I started using ArchLinux because I wanted to spend a lot of fourth dimension tinkering with information technology. I was a student and so had enough of free fourth dimension, and Arch's installation procedure and lack of any assumptions about what DE/WM you might desire to use was a not bad opportunity to become to know Linux a fleck better. And using AwesomeWM was even better; at present I had to learn a new programming language just to configure my desktop! Years later on, I stick with the same setup for exactly the opposite reasons. I don't accept every bit much time to tinker about with my setup and in those intervening years I have gotten Curvation + Awesome running just the way I like them. Distro hopping tin can be fun if treated as an end in itself, but as a means to an enjoyable and stable Os feel, it is self-defeating. Chances are you can probably achieve roughly the aforementioned user experience with whatsoever of the major distros, if you endeavor. Package managers are different, but all ultimately adequate. It might be the example that some distros are more or less compatible with sure hardware, merely I feel like that trouble has get less meaning over time. The main affair to differentiate distros these days is probably where they lie on the spectrum betwixt highly stable and bleeding edge.

> Request other people most their selection of operating system makes no sense. You have a specific problem to solve, so in what manner do you remember asking other people almost their choice is going to aid you solve your specific problem? Don't agree hither. People can give valuable feel on their chosen solution. Fifty-fifty if they chose information technology for different reasons or even incorrect reasons, they can still share their experience.

Exactly. This is like maxim that client reviews make no sense. Of class they make sense. Even with all the fraud, and all the idiots, you lot can still learn a lot about a product from people who have actually used it, rather than but listening to the manufacturer and their happy path narrative.

>Test out each of the distributions for a couple of weeks or months with your regular usage cases. I recommend taking notes if you run into any kind of trouble, no matter how small it is, and so compare later with another distribution Is this not just distro hopping? I can kind of sympathise avoiding information technology for business organization/work contexts but for home calculating who cares? Trying out different distros and OSs is a bit like a hobby. Pop distros are often popular for a reason and if you employ something like Ubuntu information technology'south very easy to discover guide how to do something vs. a more obscure exotic distro similar GoboLinux.

> Is this not merely distro hopping? Not really, it's product research, peculiarly important if you're going to rely on a distro that's a long term critical part of your business organisation. This is not a hobby activity and can employ to whatsoever process in deciding which software is the right fit for your system. Distro hopping is different. I've worked with a couple of folks who endlessly distro hopped to the extent that they seemed to spend more time installing their distros than actually using them in any productive way.

After a decade or more of using Linux honestly I don't think it matters. After a while you get your surround, information technology's set up, as long as you can update and install compilers and shit you're good. Anything "production" is going to exist in some sort of reproducible environment anyway. The kernel has all of the drivers unless you lot apply weird AF hardware. Information technology'due south like cars. They all get you from A to B, beyond a few basics in that location's not even annihilation to optimize unless you lot choose to care nearly that.

Nonetheless another reason why Linux and BSD distros, were never taken seriously on the Desktop. Alternatives of alternatives of a similar merely tweaked distros farther confuses the user into thinking their desktop will (just work) but will start to be speedily unsatisfied that a single tweak or issue in something in that desktop, volition make them migrate and distro hop constantly only to waste fourth dimension petty with their reckoner. The only proper qualifying case of Os uniformity other than Windows or macOS is ChromeOS, which is going to be replaced by Fuchsia in the futurity anyhow. There is merely ane of that, like at that place is only one Windows or macOS. That's simply the tip of the iceberg of problems with the Linux Desktop and also without getting to the discussion of 'defining' Linux support. Downvoters: You know information technology is true. Perhaps that is why this very long time veteran Linux user got fed up and moved to macOS: [0] Subsequently realising that they were spending more fourth dimension fixing their computer, OS and apps in order to become things done. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30821580

> Yet some other reason why Linux and BSD distros, were never taken seriously on the Desktop I think you're overblowing this point. Many administrations, non-profits and companies actively apply GNU/Linux or BSD desktops and are quite happy with it. Red Hat, Ubuntu and Suse are famous example providing skillful levels of support and customization if yous can afford information technology. Mandriva in its time was very convenient and pop (at least here in France) simply unfortunately they were shut down for business reasons if i remember. Only i agree with your critique that switching distro simply because you desire to switch desktop environment is the incorrect respond because it introduces and then many layers of complexity you know your tiny distro is gonna fall behind in terms of features/security. I wish more distros exposed higher-level knobs to customize everything without learning the specifics of every piece in the stack. That's for me the strongest selling point in nix/guix even though i feel it's not as user-friendly as information technology could be.

It'due south true, the rather ludicrous number of distros out in that location causes many issues for people used to more than homogeneous OSs. Probably the worst affair about information technology is that any time you lot have a problem someone will tell you lot that you lot chose the incorrect distro and you lot'll be pushed to switch to another one, where you will of grade encounter a different problem and echo the bicycle. Personally I think the proliferation of distros is itself a symptom of a greater trouble with the Linux Desktop software ecosystem. If there were more than stable ABIs, no such affair as library conflicts, less interaction complexity, etc. and so 1 could mix and lucifer software to fit their needs with piddling effort and a distro would be unnecessary.

> ... moved to macOS. I mean, I've had lots of issues with Linux, but none of them could exist solved by moving to macOS, AFAICT it could only be worse. It's unfortunate Linux is not for you, just I don't retrieve that's Linux's error, or anyone's fault.

Also that the things modify like every other year or at least every few years. And something might or might not break when updating. Windows did stay pretty consequent for long time. Windows 8 broke this, but after that it hasn't been as well bad again.

>If e.chiliad. you're mainly using the computer for gaming, playing the latest and most demanding games, and so yous can easily eliminate whatever other operating organisation than Microsoft Windows from the list, because almost zilch volition work as well on any other operating organization. I think this needs to be qualified. In that location are many reasons to not want to use Windows, and if the desire to utilise something other than Windows outweighs the price, then Linux all the same may be a improve choice. Linux can run games now, even those developed for Windows [0], and even having anti-cheat isn't an absolute blocker anymore [1]. While I understand the sentiment Mr Sheikh is trying to express, this kind of unqualified sweeping statement is helping to go along misconceptions spreading even though much progress has been made. [0] https://www.protondb.com [ane] https://areweanticheatyet.com/

I'd similar to authorize his statement. I like the idea of moving abroad from Windows, but playing sure kinds of games with close friends and family is a big part of my leisure fourth dimension. And as much equally I want Linux to exist gear up, some of the games I like to play simply don't work on Linux. At all. All of the games I like work on Windows. (MacOS is, of course, much worse. Of the games I've spent near of my time on over the past 2 years, only well-nigh 20% even run at all, let alone with decent quality settings and frame rates.) None of the games I like rely on anti-cheat. I think Linux is leaps and bounds closer to existence capable of beingness used as a gaming desktop than information technology was just ten years ago, but it'south nonetheless very much truthful that game developers (and hardware engineers) focus on Windows first, and make sure it works there, while Linux is largely an reconsideration. If I had chosen to run exclusively Linux, there would be countless times I'grand left in the dark while my friends and family unit were playing games without me. Obviously this might non apply to certain classes of game players, just for me, that's way too high a cost to give up Windows.

Call me surprised if most game studios still develop Windows first those days. Console pays better in general, and mobile platforms have a much larger market base, then games get developed for those other platforms first. Whatever "PC release" nosotros become is ofttimes now a bunch of half-assed scraps, that barely work "on Windows" in the first identify, information technology's a phenomenon they work on Wine/Proton (and even a better phenomenon when Proton manages to disengage said brain-damaged port bugs).

No, I agree. That's a proficient clarification. The affair is, most Xbox exclusives terminate upwardly available on Windows... but yet not Linux (unless Wine/Proton gets them working correct.) There are games that are... halfway there. For instance, Grounded[0] is a really cool game my wife and I play together. Works great on our Windows PCs. It looks similar it'll piece of work in Linux, by and large. Merely there are issues reported, and so you lot may get lucky, you may not, y'all may have to spend time experimenting to become information technology to work. We just installed it and played it. Then yous're still paying a "price" to choose a dissimilar Os that is less of a focus for game developers. (Don't error my observations for a preference; it scares me a chip to exist tied to Windows later witnessing the train wreck that is Windows xi. I'grand on 10 and promise to stay on it as long equally I can, with my fingers crossed that Linux approaches parity with Windows in time for me to bail.) [0] https://world wide web.protondb.com/app/962130

It'due south withal unreasonable to propose Linux as a mainstream gaming OS when more than half of the superlative ten per [1] (so, statistically, the games yous probable desire to play) are either totally unplayable or have moderate-to-severe problems, with precisely nix having a platinum (perfect) rating. This is changing, but we're non there yet. When Linux gamers can expect an feel on par with Windows, rather than a degraded 1 involving glitches and arcane tweaking, it'll be prophylactic to recommend in expert faith.

While Linux has made a lot of progress in terms of being able to run games[0], the commodity is correct that it is still quite lackluster for a lot of the latest and greatest. In particular, the VR support is terrible according to everything I've read, with simply the Index and some models of Vive existence supported at all and Steam VR being a bit of a shitshow on Linux. So if you care about VR, it isn't a skilful choice. I don't play many new enervating games at all, simply a friend is trying to go me into DCS and is thus far partially successful. DCS is a fiddly enough bitch on Windows, but apparently information technology'south that much worse in Wine. [0] Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and trend to break library ABIs frequently. Valve tries to deal with those but if it weren't for the difficult work of the WINE customs re-implementing the Windows ABIs so gaming on Linux would nevertheless basically exist express to emulators, tech demos, and Nethack.

> Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and tendency to pause library ABIs ofttimes. Linux ABI itself is pretty stable. That unfortunately can't be said of anything that depends on annihilation not-strictly-kernel, non-strictly-glibc library. > Valve tries to bargain with those. Valve try to handle those problems is pretty interesting, it's a kinda of "linux standard base" / "python manylinux" hybrid where they strictly freeze portions of the userland. Considering of that, y'all volition accept some fronzen, kinda buggy years-one-time libraries, but the resulting binaries works, on several computers, over a reasonably long time, without recompiling anything, most of the time.

In the real earth (HPC) I don't get to choose my distro. The software vendors do. Which, actually throws a wrench into things. Some of them accept decided to go with Ubuntu LTS. A few are moving to CentOS stream. Some are stuck on the concluding version of CentOS and won't support stream. Rocky? Alma? Sounds skilful but yous don't hear a peep from the vendor about them. Some of them are going to SuSE. Information technology'southward irritating because CentOS seven is very old and there's only no clear path to go correct now.

HPC is nowadays in a lot of industries. Simply by the existent world I meant not my personal machine where I tin can run any distro I feel like for the week. I will acknowledge I had a lot of fun trying out a lot of different distros in the old days!

Peradventure I'thousand more than set up in my means now, only I feel like distro hopping is largely a thing of the past. There used to be a ton of small distros with their own communities but they've pretty much disappeared. I don't know if it's the turn down of the spider web forums every bit they used to exist (which killed the small-scale communities), or if people realized these were mostly just Debian/Fedora derivatives with a absurd Openbox theme and some preinstalled packages, or if anybody just migrated to Arch. To me, Crunchbang was the last of the fun distros.

At that place used to be all kinds of distros runnable in tiny systems, localized to your wishes, optimized for speed, and with specialized compatibility. Just and so tiny systems disappeared, the mainstream distros got all of those localization options, the optimizations got generic enough for everybody to adopt, and the all the crappy enumerable compatibility hardware converged on Red Hat. That's why the distro variety disappeared. Present we can get ane distro to comprehend all utilise cases.

Used Debian for a while, but the relatively brusk life cycle is sub-optimal, as is the situation with drivers sometimes. Somewhen just gave up and am now using Ubuntu LTS on all my servers and either Ubuntu or something like Linux Mint on my personal devices - things generally just work, documentation is arable and breakages aren't as well often. My personal advice would be to just option any almost other people are using, the best documented and supported option. For when i actually want to get things washed in a passable manner, it'due south good plenty. The longer EOL is likewise great, far less churn to bargain with, every bit long equally yous don't need the latest packages. Actually, information technology's why i recently moved all of my container images from Alpine Linux as a base to Ubuntu every bit a base of operations, virtually which i wrote on my weblog: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/using-ubuntu-as-the-base-fo... Kind of pitiful that CentOS died the way it did (as a LTS distro, at least) and having to use Oracle Linux in its stead in certain enterprise settings doesn't experience bully either, though most RPM distros are likewise vaguely passable. May Rocky Linux fill up that niche properly some twenty-four hour period and be as abundant as CentOS was.

>Kind of deplorable that CentOS died the style it did (equally a LTS distro, at least) CentOS Stream is still an LTS distro. Releases get five years of active back up, the same as Ubuntu LTS, Debian and OpenSUSE Leap.

No, it isn't. It's far more than similar to Ubuntu LTS than to regular Ubuntu releases. All information technology is is an LTS distro without explicit .Y or .Y.Z releases CentOS Stream is no more than "roughly what RHEL volition expect like when the next maintenance release comes out 0-to-6 months from now". That is non remotely true of the regular Ubuntu releases. Regular Ubuntu releases (like 20.10, 21.04) take no compatibility guarantees with each other or with Ubuntu LTS. They take major version upgrades for kernel, systemd, glibc and other major packages, they modify APIs, they change ABIs, etc. CentOS Stream, like RHEL and Ubuntu LTS, does not do this, because it'southward the upstream for RHEL X.Y+1, and RHEL X.Y+1 is intended to exist ABI-identical and functionally compatible with RHEL Ten.Y. Therefore nothing lands in CentOS Stream which would pause the stability promises of RHEL maintenance updates, at least non intentionally. The stability promises are the exact same. The part that caused so much frustration in the community was non this, it was that CentOS is no longer attempting to be "bug-for-bug uniform" with RHEL. And that is because instead of bugfixes going through QA then landing on an internal nightly RHEL tree, instead they become through the exact same QA processes and so land in a public CentOS Stream tree. And then CentOS Stream gets bugfixes (except for embargo-d security patches) and the occasional characteristic prior to RHEL, merely the QA is the same, and the stability promises are the same. > See "Q: Why was CentOS Stream created?" This does non say anything which backs up the argument you lot made. Full disclosure: I piece of work for Reddish Lid

> The office that caused and so much frustration in the community was not this, information technology was that CentOS is no longer attempting to be "issues-for-bug compatible" with RHEL. But that's my signal (admitting maybe not made also equally it could exist): previously you'd tell your clients that they need RHEL version 10.Y, or CentOS version X.Y or Oracle Linux version X.Y (or whatever) for the software that you want to deliver, against which version it has been tested, they'd install it in their VM/blank metallic server and you'd have very few issues until EOL would roll around (admittedly i've meet a few bug like xrdp randomly breaking after an update, but that'due south not as important here). Having back up for roughly 10 years was pretty much a life saver in an enterprise setting that wouldn't update major releases too oftentimes and would rather focus on aircraft features, CentOS vii is supported from 2022 to 2024, CentOS 8 should have been supported for a similar amount of time, were it not for the projection existence "inverse" like it was thanks to Stream. I am nonetheless to see people talk of Stream in a positive context or offer it in nigh (regional) cloud platforms, some have switched to Oracle Linux instead, some are looking into Rocky Linux, the people who paid for RHEL merely keep paying for RHEL. Of course, that's only my subjective experience so far, i personally prefer DEB or just run containers, so i don't care likewise much. For many Stream won't exist an issue, but for others its akin to running their software on JDK xviii, nineteen, ... instead of JDK 17 which is the electric current LTS offer. Ubuntu remains similarly tedious every bit it previously has, y'all tin can run your software on twenty.04 for the years to come with few surprises. CentOS Stream sitting between RHEL and Fedora is a not-starter for many. Of course, Red Chapeau tin practice whatever they feel is good for the project long term or what makes sense financially, the people who are not okay with it will simply await elsewhere. Thankfully, containers let you lessen the headache past quite a lot.

While there are several useful insights hither, I think the absolutist stance misses the mark and is overgeneralizing. While yes, yous could (in theory) enquiry the sources, the policies, the procedures, the contributors, the organization... It can save a lot of fourth dimension (and exist a lot more than fun) to endeavour things out in practice. Simply exist ready to wipe and commencement from scratch when yous realize it's time to cut your losses. The advice to stick with independent distros is a good one, in near situations. Merely the simply way I can confidently agree with the author is through experience with the alternatives. That was non fourth dimension lost. If I'd recommend a daily driver for a very non-technical friend who wants to continue using their laptop that's effectively EOL under Windows? A non-contained distro makes sense. And how would I be able to make an informed recommendation? I could try it out myself. Mayhap on an isolated mediaplayer, a use-instance specific VM, or an embedded dev project, where stability and security don't thing that much. When the stakes are depression and I savour trying new things to get a feel for the customs and ecosystem, distro-hopping tin can be nice. Many when I got new hardware in the past, I installed a new distro either on that or any it was replacing. Most of them didn't stick but some did - this is how you tin can learn. You also get to know about the ways of the other contained distros. If you're more often than not an Curvation+Fedora person, for case, maintaining a Debian installation is great to widen your experience and understand where each makes sense and fits. I've installed more derivatives than I tin remember and I can tell through experience why I wouldn't recommend most of them. When Mint had zero issues during the same timespan that system upgrades completely broke the vanilla Manjaro desktop for the third time, I tin now make more than informed decisions. I would take no thought nigh the difference in quality, testing and maintenance if I hadn't actually been running them for a significant fourth dimension myself. Asking someone about their dist of choice can absolutely be useful - if you understand where they're coming from and/or they sympathise your state of affairs and needs. Information technology all depends on context. Information technology can brand sense to outsource some of the bootstrapping and user configuration. Just be enlightened of the tradeoffs. And exercise information technology because it's fun, not (just) because you believe the grass is greener.

I remember the problem with distro hopping is that you are not really solving a problem. For case, you are going to endeavor out distros until y'all find one where you Nvidia menu or wifi works, or the one with your preferred desktop environment, the one with this or that tool etc... But in near cases, these are things you can change, Linux is open, distros are essentially just the set of defaults the maintainers similar. In that location are some oddballs, similar Gentoo, but well-nigh are but variation on the same base. In fact, a minimal Ubuntu and a minimal Debian are near identical. If you are constantly distro-hopping yous probably take some specific needs than no distro fulfills, and your time is probably ameliorate spent picking i (preferably of the minimal kind) and actually solving your specific bug than trying to find a perfect lucifer when in that location is none. I use Debian (minimal) BTW.

Agreed. "My nvidia doesn't work" "Switch to Mint/Arch/Fedora/Void" is a mutual sequence in online discussions. And information technology persists considering information technology sometimes solves the problem by forcing the user to re-tread the steps once again and again until they get it correct.

Paralysis past assay is what happens not when there are a wide multifariousness of choices. It is what happens when one feels 1 has to do a deeper and broader analysis than they take time, energy, know how, or mental fortitude to undertake. If one felt they had to understand the managerial structures, maintenance schedules, and only a smattering of aeronautical engineering in order to pick which flying yous were going to have to Hawaii you lot would experience the same thing. The writer is correct that listening to 100 expert beginners on Reddit is a poor manner to selection a distro or learn annihilation near anything but wrong I recall in his dismissal of distro hopping. One doesn't need to drive every make and model of auto but its actually expected to read some reviews then drive several. Learning how to use your distro beyond clicking the icon for your web browser and reading your distros docs volition actually give you the background to understand the different tools at your disposal. If one spends 6 months using Ubuntu before discovering that Debian Arch or Mint would be a better choice instead of starting with Mint Arch or Debian off the bat is this really a huge loss?

I think the commodity encapsulates the problem perfectly. When I started to switch from Windows to Linux, I've constantly changed distros picking whatsoever I saw "cool" people in my online circle use. I switched between Ubuntu, Debian, Arch and it's 100% FLOSS siblings all the fourth dimension, sometimes using a distro just for one or 2 days. It is a stupid Endeavour as yous have no time getting used to your surround and and then yous lack the skills required to solve any problems that occur. What fixed my addiction was actually having to employ my laptop for university, where I ran Ubuntu, and later at work, where we used Fedora. It helped me become used to it and tailor it to my needs. Recently, I've switched at home and work to MacOS ( couldn't resist the new M1 chips). It fulfills my requirements and works like a charm.

I went with Ubuntu when I switched from Windows some time around "Dapper". Stuck with information technology until "Karmic" or something like that. I only switched to Arch because I was getting tired of the large upgrades, and not having the latest versions of things I needed for piece of work. This decision makes sense for me and for the laptop that I use daily every bit a developer. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a regular user, and even less for a server environment. Is information technology really so complicated? If you lot take very specific needs, y'all'll know what to expect for. If you're not that special - why non merely get with something mutual until you come across what limitations you can live with and which ones are deal-breakers? I think a lot of "distro hopping" is also merely beingness interested in the OS itself. I don't run across the problem.

It is a stupid Effort Installing and switching between a one-half dozen distros (plus a couple of BDSs and Open up Solaris) when first learning to use *nada really taught me a lot about all kinds of different aspects and philosophies of the *nix world and getting all those distros to actually install and run gave me lots problem solving skills. Now I've settled on Ubuntu, been using it basically exclusively for the past ten+ years (minus a brusque affair with Arch a few years ago) and have no plans on switching. But having that initial feel with lots of different OSs was very educational.

Quite interesting to encounter how our experiences differentiate every bit I never got the chance to really understand what I was doing or what is going on but possibly that depends on our different approaches when switching distros

It really is a matter of perspective. I ended up doing the same thing as the parent annotate, switching to Linux subsequently beingness fed upwards with Windows and MacOS. It took me a few tries to find a bundle manager that worked for me (and I certainly borked my fair share of systems in the first few months), merely Linux just worked in ways that MacOS and Windows never really did for me. Software installed quickly and flawlessly. Dev tools like git, docker and make were no longer second-course experiences. My coreutils were up-to-date, out-of-the-box. I could test and compile stuff on my own system and reliably deploy it to the deject without needing to account for different architectures, kernel breakage or ABI incongruity. Virtual machines and containers executed faster than whatever other organisation I had tried. Microsoft Edge wasn't begging me to get out it as default. I didn't get notifications near The New Safari. It ultimately comes downwards to workload, I suppose. If you're a artistic professional or build iPhone apps for a living, I doubt you'll enjoy your time on Linux very much. As someone who does neither of those things very frequently, Linux feels like dwelling house to me.

I think it also depends on which distros y'all choose. Installing 6 dissimilar Debian/Ubuntu flavours, might not teach you much. Installing Debian, Gentoo and OpenBSD volition at least open you lot upwardly to several different means of solving the same problem. I also recollect it really depends on what your end goal for doing it is. Do you just desire to get to the point where you have a working dev environment as quickly every bit possible or do you desire to learn most Operating Systems and hardware for its own sake. For me, at the time, getting NetBSD working on a 'no proper noun' PowerPC dev board I bought off of eBay was a fun goal in it self.

Equally a long-fourth dimension user of Ubuntu (and derivative distros) who has ever wanted to checkout Arch, what made you get back to Ubuntu from your fling with Arch?

As an entreaty to choose software effectively I tin endorse this post. This IS about agreement the inevitable compromises every distribution makes (e.g. security vs performance) and choosing what fits your needs. This is NOT nearly trying them all until you like something.

By compromises every distribution makes, I am referring to cases where one choice precludes some other, and any distribution tin can choose just i. Security costs performance. It'south difficult to support 3d hardware with pure open-source drivers. Most distributions are fairly up-front well-nigh their project values so you tin understand which way they will make these compromises.

I do good of distro hopping is that to do it you must accept all your information and projects bachelor externally somewhere, so that's a great starting indicate in general. Me, I establish vanilla xubuntu fit my needs perfectly so I merely reinstall every couple of years, and keep working. I wager there are a lot of united states "only getting work done" with desktop Linux, it's really great imo.

I chose debian, because information technology is mostly dull and "outdated", but quite secure. My focus is to solve issues, not carp with new distribution software. Also present with containers its quite hard not to become some software running.

`stable` is not the just release, I wouldn't consider any of my Debian workstations outdated because they're non. `testing` and `unstable` are oft more dependable than other distro'due south idea of stable.

Using test driving cars as analogy is terrible, at to the lowest degree I call back examination driving cars is very useful.

I was lucky enough to realize early that all Un*X software is bad and no distro will overcome this bottleneck. For instance, even if you use the but few GUI toolkits that piece of work reasonably fast, similar Motif, these programs will notwithstanding exist cleaved on another axis.

I've been using Linux since I was x (so nigh 20 years now) and there still isn't a distro that I can say I similar (although Tall is closest.) If you want to exist picky so learn to practise it from scratch, otherwise find a distro with a adept grouping of people behind it and stick with it.

richquot1946.blogspot.com

Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30986028

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